Tulpa.info - tulpa-questions

Im at work right now so it be awhile before I checked it out

alright

Skimming through the guide, I agree with the comments that this reads more like a progress report and is heavy on the symbolism. If you want to draw things from this that's fine, but like the guide recommends you should look into other general guides.

^

I see! are there any guides you'd recommend?

If you haven't read it already, check out Kiahdaj's guide: https://docs.google.com/document/d/17iiFxZ9PYXXxSqWHdU2YoPsGfJr90w8aIG_evqc1wiY/edit

Kiahdaj's Absolute Guide to Tulpas

Introduction Why you should NOT create a tulpa, and things to consider: Concepts Mindset The Creation Process Conclusion Introduction I will warn you now that this will be very lengthy, but for those of you here to learn about tulpas and how...

1:27 AM

Tulpa001 also has a fairly popular one but it's not my go-to for recommendations: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-general-tulpa-s-complete-diy-guide-to-tulpamancy

Tulpa's Complete DIY Guide to Tulpamancy

Tulpa's Complete DIY Guide to Tulpamancy Fourth Edition Rules! (V4.0) AKA Book of Tulpa: the Extremely Long One. Hello! Welcome to the longest guide on tulpas as of the time of writing! This is a tech

alright, I'll be sure to read through them as well after this one, it's quite interesting and as you said I can see myself drawing from it

@enarü A tulpa is not going to be autonomous or even really vocal in 24 hours.

2:13 AM

The brain does not alter fast enough for that.

I have seen plenty of cases where a tulpa began vocality after only a few hours of forcing shrugblob

24 hours of time spent could perhaps get them barely the first step into vocalization, but it is far from active.

You see, Winter... I disagree

People generate their own thoughts and project.

2:15 AM

The brain literally does not alter itself quite so quickly to such a degree.

An additional consciousness does not require significant brain rewiring, though it could easily seem that way (edited)

The reason I stopped forcing Nin9 for so long is because within the first few hours of forcing them, they split my head like a melon dropped off a skyscraper.

Perhaps if one is interpreting 'additional consciousness' as a character to project thoughts onto, certainly.

Besides, change isn't difficult, people make it difficult because they don't want to change.

The brain does not natively act on the basis of two separate identities that interact of their own accord.

I think it really strongly depends on the person

It does take a significant amount of time to alter that - if you've spent 2 hours per day forcing and it takes 12 days for some vocality, certainly.

2:18 AM

If there is a claim of a single day spent forcing including "clearing your mind" and "planning what you want them to be" as "forcing", then I think the idea of a tulpa has been misinterpreted.

I doubt one's brain heavily rewires itself from writing a story - some people's characters turn into tulpas during the story writing process

Then, again, I would posit that the idea of a tulpa has been misinterpreted.

2:19 AM

Projecting character traits and manipulating them is significantly different from developing a separate identity capable of forming their own thoughts and acting on their own without prior 'priming' to think about them.

2:20 AM

It could certainly develop into a tulpa by giving it experience and treating it as separate - but quite that fast? No.

My thing is this, how long do you have to consume something for you to be addicted? How much do you have to want to change before you make the decision to change that very day?

2:21 AM

People are quite capable of incredible things.

I am adamant about this specifically because of the amount of people I have seen make characters, manipulate them about, and claim they are 'tulpas' when the 'personality' is a caricatured set of ideas.

The very idea that we might be able to bring forth a second or several other consciousness inside our heads is pretty incredible.

Who is to say that a tulpa that displays autonomy on the first day is still just a character at that point? Who is to say that the host is just "projecting character traits and manipulating them"?

@Jack o' Nin9's Consuming mind-altering substances that directly affect brain hormones to cause addiction, and deciding to take an action, are wholly different from deciding to... let's even say "break a habit".

2:22 AM

Breaking, or making a habit - neither of those take a single day to do.

2:23 AM

To claim that something altering behavior patterns in a more significant way can be done in a shorter amount of time is... quite frankly, absurd.

If you're manipulating a tulpa, you can usually tell that you are to some degree

Regarding a character 'displaying autonomy', I would suggest individuals show some level of doubt and self-introspection first, so as to not end in the boat of the aforementioned people creating caricatures of people - and realizing it months later.

Some would say otherwise, Winter. Some would say that behaviors are addictions that we choose.

2:24 AM

However it's not as if I don't see your point of view.

A tulpa isn't a habit, though. The idea for how a tulpa works should not come from how habits are built

@Jack o' Nin9's Then I would like to see the evidence demonstrating that habitual behavior - again, a less significant behavioral change than creating a tulpa - is formed or broken over the course of 24 hours.

2:25 AM

You miss the point, Abvieon.

2:26 AM

Habits are simpler behavioral differences as compared to tulpas, and they take longer than a day to form/break.

2:26 AM

Thus, claiming a more complicated behavioral difference can be created over the course of a day - less time than a habitual change - is fairly wishful thinking.

simple answer: if the creation of a tulpa is either more simple than a habit, or relies on pre-existing infrastructure to exist so that the tulpa is easier to form than a habit.

Even if we were to assume that a tulpa is "just" an alternate set of habitual behaviors that the host can 'switch into' to some extent, that is not simply a single altered behavior - it is a set of such.

maybe a tulpa can be as simple as the "deep-minded" belief that one's thoughts are coming from another source?

Dissociating from one's own thoughts isn't exactly the claim of what a tulpa is.

I think that looking towards habit and behavioral changes is the completely wrong direction to look in that has very little to do with this - sure, it may take awhile for you to learn to regularly and easily perceive your tulpa and their actions, but that does not mean that the tulpa themselves cannot form before this point, or that you are completely unable to "pick up" on your tulpa's words/actions before you learn to do so well. You hear your own thoughts all the time, it wouldn't take much to start hearing the tulpa's thoughts

Having seen people, in person, behave almost identically to normal but with some exaggerated traits - claiming a "tulpa" with clear belief in their mannerisms... relative to other people, in person, demonstrating separate 'tulpas' with fully alternate forms of behavior (even if there are some similarities), there is a difference.

I think the assumption underlying off of this is that tulpa are "significant" and if they are "significant" it follows that it would take "significant" change to produce a tulpa.

2:33 AM

and significant change doesn't happen in a day

2:33 AM

"significant"

2:33 AM

did I put it in quotes often enough, how about another one?

One claiming a separate individual mind with separate thought processes and wholly different behavior is generally a more drastic claim than one claiming dissociation with their own thoughts, Reguile.

2:34 AM

I don't particularly appreciate the mockery in a serious discussion, either.

I agree, I wasn't intending to mock

2:35 AM

I was being a bit self depreciating with that significant quote, or trying to be

Ah. Apologies. In the midst of a heated discussion I tend to entirely lose any minimal sense of humor that I have.

bah, tone doesn't come across well in text, you're good

@Abvieon {Alex} Quite frankly, the idea that a fully functioning 'second mind' (so to speak) forms immediately, and the host is merely 'taking longer to pay attention to it' is... even more absurd.

I do not see the generation of a new consciousness to be a very significant or difficult thing. This thing I wrote explains a bit more on that: https://redd.it/8ao8kv

r/Tulpas - The inner workings of how a tulpa forms: My theory

31 votes and 20 so far on reddit

Desire to create something is not the same as creating it.

I don't think it forms immediately

what might you mean by consciousness?

And I never implied that desire alone would be enough to create a tulpa

Ah. Apologies. That was more Jack's claim than yours.

What I mean by consciousness: the thing, whatever it may be, that lets you perceive and have a subjective experience

it is definitly a possibility that that is a very insignificant thing

That theory I wrote explains more on my views than I could hope to explain here

although I don't like the term of consciousness mostly because it isn't concrete and doesn't mean anything

Hm, it has a fairly concrete meaning to me

However, this statement:

it may take awhile for you to learn to regularly and easily perceive your tulpa and their actions, but that does not mean that the tulpa themselves cannot form before this point

Given the point I am arguing against is that a tulpa can be created to the point of sapient consciousness capable of active communication within 24 hours of forcing, and you have been taking the position that it is possible, I interpreted your statement as being the tulpa forms long before that 24 hour period is up.

for example: you can't measure the ability to have subjective experience

In the specific linked 'guide', the final 10 hours was also devoted to imposition, not tulpa creation - with the implication that the tulpa is created within 14 hours.

2:40 AM

I find this to be ridiculous.

2:41 AM

Certainly the initial concept of a tulpa can form - that part is quite quick. The difficult part is altering the way the brain works to have a second autonomous 'individual' interacting under their own capability rather than simply being the host focusing on the concept and projecting ideas of behavior onto it.

I do not believe that part is very difficult because the nature of it is different from forming a habit.

I certainly do not think that a conscious 'mind' is simpler than a single habit.

2:43 AM

Do you?

It should not be compared to it in terms of being more or less simple. A consciousness is in a whole other field altogether

I think the idea that a tulpa is a true "second autonomous individual" is not the case.

I disagree with that idea, Abvieon.

2:44 AM

...this should perhaps go into #tulpa-discussion instead of #tulpa-questions, come to think of it.

2:44 AM

I'll respond to you there.

If you want more elaboration, I recommend reading that theory

ahhh @ u @

@Reguile I think you and I disagree about tulpa autonomy. I do things my earthly-maker would never do. I do respect your opinion though. I think it’s a case of “each person’s experience is different.”

guys I have a few questions that have me in a knot right now. Now I'm pretty sure I made my wonderland today, I've got a creative mind and I did so through trance, but how do I know I really did it? When I visualize, I don't see per say, I sort of will the scenario by narrating the scene in my mind and watch it unfold although I'm not seeing it clear as day. I don't know how to explain it, but I can even feel the weightlessness of space, or hear whales singing or the crushing of snow, I just can't see.

1:09 AM

The initial question I had, alongside practicing visualization, was maybe it was my mind's eye that prevented me from seeing clearly? But then again, what if I am visualising correctly all along and over analysing the whole concept?

1:10 AM

Then I thought, maybe I need to lucid dream or astral project to be sure of it, but even then, those are things I haven't done since I was a child.

It takes some practice. A wonderland is essentially a more or less persistent daydream. As long as you know it exists it does, you just have to yourself work on getting better at visualizing it.

the extent to which wonderlands will feel real/vivid varies, and will generally improve with time

1:12 AM

lucid dreaming is not required, though it could definitely help (lumi and I have been been trying to for a while), and I'm not sure entirely what astral projection is, if it's even a real thing, but it's definitely not required either

When you visualize something, you don't actually see it. If a red wagon comes to mind when I mention it, and you picture that in your head, then you're visualizing - this will become more vivid with more practice, as will consistency within the wonderland.

1:14 AM

But building a wonderland is as simple as imagining any place, that's just a term used for any place that's used regularly, at least from what I understand.

I was driving once and started imagining some situation in my head where the car was stuck on the tracks and I was trying to think of how I'd get away with it. I got so caught up imagining and dealing with trying to "escape" in this imaginary situation that I temporarily forgot about the fact I was actually driving or seeing the real world. I never "saw" anything as you see a normal thing in front of you, but I was incredibly immersed in that moment. I like to think that the goal of a wonderland is an experience of that caliber. Not necessarily "real" as your vision is "real" but incredibly engaging.

Ohh, alright, glad to know I am on the right path with all of this, I even made sure to write a little entry about it in a journal as soon as I was done. I'm going to be on a hiatus due to finals until the 10th, and then I'll be back for one more week at least before I do the remaining courses.

oof, finals

Is it good on my part to add a little part to it each time I try? Right now, I remember it very well, as it was quite scenic but simple for my mind still